Episode 22
Decoding the Creative Beast w/ Jacinda Walker
Welcome to Works In Process / Ep 22
I always encourage (young people) that you should believe you can do it. That thing that you think is a disadvantage might very well be the best down thing you SHOULD do.
You’ve got to believe it’s possible. Because there will be people, there will be forces, there will be places and organizations to tell you otherwise. If you don’t, you better start believing quick!”
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That’s my guest Jacinda Walker , Jacinda is renowned for her work in design, diversity, research, and strategy. She is the founder and creative director of designExplorr, a social impact organization whose mission addresses the diversity gap within the design profession. Her research on Design Journeys: Strategies for Increasing Diversity in Design Disciplines has been hailed as breakthrough work. This solutions-based thesis explores diversity in design disciplines and investigates effective strategies to expose Black and Latino youth to design careers. Ms. Walker’s future goals are to help scale diversity in design initiatives within education institutions, corporations, organizations, and museums.
It's for her continued drive and advocation for young people that I have Jacinda on the show. I look to learn how she instills the passion for design at an early and what we should do, as a community, do to foster this change alongside her.
Enjoy!
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Mentions
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Other links Jacinda wants you to know about:
Follow GUEST NAME via: Jacinda's Facebook page /@designexplorr on Instagram / Jacinda's Website / @designexplorr on Twitter
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Credits
- Edited by RJ Basilio
- Research and Transcription Reviewer: Or Syzflingier
- Intro / Outro Music: The System Has Failed Us - The Passion HiFi
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About the Works In Process Podcast:
A podcast series by George Garrastegui, Jr. — designer, educator, and creative catalyst. Works In Process is a collection of discussions that explore and demystify the creative process. I interview individuals to gain more insight into the ways they work and the projects they produce.
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Transcript
And so if I was talking to the younger my
Jacinda W:younger self or any young people, I always encourage them,
Jacinda W:that you should believe you can do it. That thing that you think
Jacinda W:is a disadvantage, it might very well be the best down thing you
Jacinda W:should do. It might be the very, very thing in gotta believe it.
Jacinda W:You got to believe it's possible you got to believe it can
Jacinda W:happen, you got to believe you can do it. Because there will be
Jacinda W:people that will be forces, it will be places and organizations
Jacinda W:to tell you otherwise. If you don't, you better start
Jacinda W:believing quick.
George Garrastegui, Jr.:Welcome to work in process. The podcast
George Garrastegui, Jr.:series where I design an educated George Garrison Jr.
George Garrastegui, Jr.:Have the conversations you wish you had. I talked to designers,
George Garrastegui, Jr.:artists, educators and creators to find out the hows and whys of
George Garrastegui, Jr.:their creative work. Through experiences and inspiration, my
George Garrastegui, Jr.:guests explore the techniques and observations that have
George Garrastegui, Jr.:helped them navigate their creative career. Thanks for
George Garrastegui, Jr.:joining me to explore how creativity is fueled by
George Garrastegui, Jr.:intuition, motivation, and most of all process. And that was
George Garrastegui, Jr.:today's guest to send a walk to senators are renowned for her
George Garrastegui, Jr.:work in design, diversity research and strategy. Her
George Garrastegui, Jr.:research on design journeys strategy for increasing
George Garrastegui, Jr.:diversity in design disciplines has been hailed a breakthrough
George Garrastegui, Jr.:over this solution a thesis explores diversity in design
George Garrastegui, Jr.:disciplines and investigates effective strategies to expose
George Garrastegui, Jr.:black and Latino youth to design careers. Just in his future
George Garrastegui, Jr.:goals are to help scale diversity in design initiatives
George Garrastegui, Jr.:with education institutions, corporations, organizations and
George Garrastegui, Jr.:museums. Recently Jacinda was featured as an unsung hero by
George Garrastegui, Jr.:the Cleveland Public Library, and received the 2021 mentor
George Garrastegui, Jr.:award from the Chicago based project osmosis. It's for her
George Garrastegui, Jr.:continued drive and advocation for young people that I have
George Garrastegui, Jr.:just in the on the show today. I look to learn how she instills
George Garrastegui, Jr.:passion for design an early age and what we as a community can
George Garrastegui, Jr.:do to foster this change alongside her. Ages Linda,
George Garrastegui, Jr.:welcome to the works in process podcast.
Jacinda W:Hey, thank you for having me. Thank you for having
Jacinda W:me. I appreciate you.
George Garrastegui, Jr.:Oh, no problem. No problem. Um, before
George Garrastegui, Jr.:we get into you, and what you are as a creative, I'd like to
George Garrastegui, Jr.:do something fun as the beginning of our podcasts. It's
George Garrastegui, Jr.:a rapid q&a questions. Are you ready? Yes, I am. Give it to me.
George Garrastegui, Jr.:All right. So first is a series of this or that questions? And
George Garrastegui, Jr.:this or
Jacinda W:that? Got it? Got it.
George Garrastegui, Jr.:Coffee or tea?
Jacinda W:Tea,
George Garrastegui, Jr.:eggs or cereal?
Jacinda W:Oh, I like them both both.
George Garrastegui, Jr.:Both analog or digital?
Jacinda W:Analog
George Garrastegui, Jr.:Cleveland or Akron
Jacinda W:216 Every day
George Garrastegui, Jr.:workshops or speaking engagements.
George Garrastegui, Jr.:Both know you got it. You got to pick one.
Jacinda W:workshops or speaking engagements, workshops or
Jacinda W:speaking engagements, workshops.
George Garrastegui, Jr.:All right, there you go. And now
George Garrastegui, Jr.:some quick word association. Right. So the first thing you
George Garrastegui, Jr.:hear when you hear these words, okay.
George Garrastegui, Jr.:Creativity,
Jacinda W:design,
George Garrastegui, Jr.:determination.
Jacinda W:Black women.
George Garrastegui, Jr.:Business.
Jacinda W:Risk,
George Garrastegui, Jr.:failure.
Jacinda W:Fail Fast, fast.
George Garrastegui, Jr.:Community.
Jacinda W:Cleveland,
George Garrastegui, Jr.:education.
Jacinda W:design
George Garrastegui, Jr.:mistakes
Jacinda W:all the time. Exactly. Right. Exactly.
George Garrastegui, Jr.:Skills.
Jacinda W:Lots of history. Gotta have it.
George Garrastegui, Jr.:Opportunity.
Jacinda W:crushes come on commodities.
George Garrastegui, Jr.:Accessibility
Jacinda W:with everything.
George Garrastegui, Jr.:Future
Jacinda W:now,
George Garrastegui, Jr.:and last but not least, process
Jacinda W:is a must.
George Garrastegui, Jr.:Definitely. Right. I totally agree. Yes.
Jacinda W:I work with so many young people. And that's usually
Jacinda W:one of our first conversations like, do you even know how you
Jacinda W:do what you do?
George Garrastegui, Jr.:Such a big one.
Jacinda W:They're still learning. And they're usually in
Jacinda W:school or having these experiences where they're trying
Jacinda W:to learn about the profession and learn about the work, right?
Jacinda W:And you get so far out and you're like, oh, no, what do I
Jacinda W:need? Eat, remain creative. You know, this thing called a career
Jacinda W:is a long journey. And if you don't ask yourself that early
Jacinda W:enough, you'll slip up. It was totally above and not being
Jacinda W:paying attention to it. So being able to talk about that when
Jacinda W:you're a young, creative, critical, critical and so that's
Jacinda W:usually a big conversation that we usually
George Garrastegui, Jr.:agreed. And so now let's get a little
George Garrastegui, Jr.:bit into kind of what I call your origin story, right? Let's
George Garrastegui, Jr.:find out how you were introduced into art and design.
Jacinda W:Well, I talk often I talk about often is not private.
Jacinda W:I am from an incredibly creative mother, my mom, she was so
Jacinda W:special, she could cook and she sewed clothing like, you know,
Jacinda W:she sewed me and my brothers clothes into like real boobs.
Jacinda W:And she cooked she made clothes, she did hair. My mother was like
Jacinda W:the the neighborhood building hairstylist. She did a little
Jacinda W:bit of makeup. I mean, she was she crocheted, you know, like
Jacinda W:the string crocheting, not just knitting, but like string
Jacinda W:crochet, they make the doilies that a lot of women have during
Jacinda W:the 1920s on their tablecloths. And so she did those. And we
Jacinda W:always work creative in the house, like it was something
Jacinda W:that we did as a hobby, never in my right mind. And I think that
Jacinda W:this was something that you could do as a career path. And
Jacinda W:so in high school, when my teacher, she was pregnant, and
Jacinda W:she went away on maternity leave, she was replaced by this
Jacinda W:gentleman's name was Mr. Apple bomb. And he was a commercial
Jacinda W:artist. And he started us using typography, and making ads. And
Jacinda W:he even took away our paint our watercolors and brushes, and he
Jacinda W:replaced them with Prisma colors, and T squares and
Jacinda W:repeater graph pins. And, you know, he changed everything. And
Jacinda W:he told me that he thought I was pretty good at this, and I
Jacinda W:should think about it. And I didn't believe him. And I know
Jacinda W:at 16, I had loss of attitude. And I did it was really bad. I
Jacinda W:look back on it, like, Oops. But I lost that attitude at 16. And
Jacinda W:I went ahead, I cut class and I went to the guidance counselor
Jacinda W:to ask them, Is it this thing called design? And what is it
Jacinda W:and where is it? And for me, you have to understand this is
Jacinda W:before Google. And this is before the internet, right? So
Jacinda W:like, I just went and they had binders of books. And in the
Jacinda W:whole guidance counselor office, it was only three that had the
Jacinda W:art and design stuff in it. So it for me, I feel like it
Jacinda W:narrowed it in the what, and the where and the how, very, very
Jacinda W:quickly. And as the oldest child in my family, my mother refused
Jacinda W:to let me go out of state. She was like, I was like, Oh, my
Jacinda W:music school in Florida. What you're gonna do there? You can't
Jacinda W:do design here. You know? But will you need to find how to do
Jacinda W:it here. She was like, you can go, but I'm gonna need to stay
Jacinda W:in the state. And so that's kind of the origin story of how I
Jacinda W:kind of got into this area.
George Garrastegui, Jr.:Wow. So. So with that, right, you
George Garrastegui, Jr.:answered a lot of questions I was gonna ask in the beginning,
George Garrastegui, Jr.:which is awesome. So we can we can bypass that right? And so
George Garrastegui, Jr.:what was your first creative job? And how did you stumble
George Garrastegui, Jr.:into it?
Jacinda W:Did not stumble walk face first into it, smack bed
Jacinda W:and my first design job. It was an internship at Hickok
Jacinda W:engineering. It's here in Cleveland, they work for Ford,
Jacinda W:and they make car parts. Now realize, you know, here in
Jacinda W:Cleveland remanufacturing time, we're still town, you know, and
Jacinda W:these kinds of nooks and crannies, exists all in
Jacinda W:Cleveland, but I didn't know anything about it. And I had an
Jacinda W:amazing sixth grade art teacher. And she became the computer
Jacinda W:design teacher, right? Like she taught us like computer literacy
Jacinda W:and coding, you know, all that kind of stuff. And then when I
Jacinda W:got out of college, I had, you know, you have like summer
Jacinda W:breaks. And so I would always go back and visit my high school, I
Jacinda W:would always go back and visit the middle school. I still had I
Jacinda W:have a ton of siblings. So they were still. So it was easy for
Jacinda W:me to stay connected. And when she found out I was looking for
Jacinda W:work. She was like, Oh, I know some people and I'm thinking,
Jacinda W:Okay, well call me. And she did. And I met the gentleman at
Jacinda W:Hickok engineering. And he was like, Oh my gosh, you know how
Jacinda W:to design. And I figured he was just gonna hire me to make
Jacinda W:coffee and go do errands and go find stuff, right? Like, that's
Jacinda W:what I thought. And he was like, oh, no, we're gonna have you
Jacinda W:make something. And I'm thinking, I can't make anything
Jacinda W:I don't even have like, I just barely got a two year degree. I
Jacinda W:don't think I'm qualified to do anything. And he was like, he
Jacinda W:was like, how did you make this stuff in your portfolio? And I
Jacinda W:told him, I use this program called PageMaker and Quark
Jacinda W:Express and he was like, really? And I said, Yes, you know, we
Jacinda W:got max at school. And he was like, well, we want you to make
Jacinda W:our newsletter, and so forth. For the next three months,
Jacinda W:George, I had personalized training from the writers from
Jacinda W:the mechanics, from the entire automotive team, the Photoshop
Jacinda W:designers, like the people who did the retouching and the
Jacinda W:cleansing, because you know, when you see the magazine, when
Jacinda W:you see the car parts in the magazine, they don't always look
Jacinda W:that clean all the time, somebody's got a nail look like
Jacinda W:that. So I got a chance to work with each of these
Jacinda W:professionals, so that I could create and design this
Jacinda W:newsletter. And when I finished the newsletter, and I went back
Jacinda W:to school, and went back to University of Akron, it was
Jacinda W:crazy, because I had already begun to evolve. I saw it in my
Jacinda W:work. I saw it in my abilities. And I was able to see it in my
Jacinda W:classmates, like, oh, wait a second, we're talking about
Jacinda W:something different now. Right, like, some of us have had
Jacinda W:different experiences. And I'm seeing now, right, and this was
Jacinda W:maybe like my second into second year. So it was it was really
Jacinda W:early still, like it was still super early in my career.
George Garrastegui, Jr.:It's not the the great point of an
George Garrastegui, Jr.:internship, right to expose you to things a lot quicker than you
George Garrastegui, Jr.:would do in school.
Jacinda W:And, and the internship provides an
Jacinda W:opportunity for you to really think, is this what it could be
Jacinda W:like it like, if this internship became a full time job? Could I
Jacinda W:be happy doing this? Would I be creatively challenged? Right?
Jacinda W:Like internships allow you do that? How are you messing with
Jacinda W:other people? Right? George, what are you wearing to work
Jacinda W:every day? Right? Like because you know, coming out of college,
Jacinda W:you got like, one good pair of slacks, maybe two good shirts,
Jacinda W:you know,
George Garrastegui, Jr.:but as you broke, you are a college
George Garrastegui, Jr.:student. We are broke,
Jacinda W:right? Like, so what do you wear to work? Like, how?
Jacinda W:How do you plan this part of your life out? Right? How do you
Jacinda W:afford work clothes? I remember asking so many of my older women
Jacinda W:friends, where do you buy stuff that's not for school. But
George Garrastegui, Jr.:how I mean, it's it's such a learning
George Garrastegui, Jr.:experience that like the quote unquote, real world allows you
George Garrastegui, Jr.:to start considering things that you just didn't do. When you
George Garrastegui, Jr.:were in school. Because you're upping the game, maybe you know,
George Garrastegui, Jr.:you're learning because of the experience, or you're just
George Garrastegui, Jr.:realizing like you mentioned to yourself that, hey, I'm now
George Garrastegui, Jr.:having a different conversation than the rest of my classmates.
George Garrastegui, Jr.:So I need to actually kind of, you know, step it up, because I
George Garrastegui, Jr.:know that it's a difference. Right? Yeah. So in that, when
George Garrastegui, Jr.:did you first consider yourself a creative? Genius, I
Jacinda W:think I'm still working on that every day. I'm
Jacinda W:not even the creative I was yesterday, every day is a new
Jacinda W:learning spirit. I'm taking I'm taking a social impact class.
Jacinda W:Now on Wednesdays, after Fah. It's from seven to nine. So I'm
Jacinda W:still learning. And in fact, that's usually one of the things
Jacinda W:I usually tell young designers when they talk with me about
Jacinda W:this, like, if you are not going to be dedicated to lifelong
Jacinda W:learning, you need to start right now. You meet and go any
Jacinda W:further, if you are not willing to dedicate yourself to lifelong
Jacinda W:learning, because that's what it is to be a designer, it's not
Jacinda W:good enough just to have a degree and think you're gonna
Jacinda W:keep that job. There's lifelong learning. Here. They're updating
Jacinda W:the software every day, there's new software out every day, I
Jacinda W:was trying to teach myself Adobe XD a couple of months ago. Now I
Jacinda W:know how successful I was George, but I was I was trying
Jacinda W:to learn
George Garrastegui, Jr.:it. That's the whole point.
Jacinda W:Every every at Lake, so if you're not going to be
Jacinda W:dedicated to continuing and nurturing your craft, and
Jacinda W:learning, you may as well just go on a start right now. Do
Jacinda W:yourself a favor, find something that you can do. That doesn't
Jacinda W:require learning?
George Garrastegui, Jr.:Exactly. I mean, I totally agree. I think
George Garrastegui, Jr.:there's, there's a point where, you know, if you consider
George Garrastegui, Jr.:yourself like I've reached the pinnacle of anything at an early
George Garrastegui, Jr.:age, then you need to stop, right you need because you you
George Garrastegui, Jr.:don't have the wherewithal to kind of dig deep into anything
George Garrastegui, Jr.:that you're doing to really push it to really push yourself and
George Garrastegui, Jr.:to go to that next level. If you think you've kind of achieved
George Garrastegui, Jr.:whatever you think you should have achieved at 2025 30. Right,
George Garrastegui, Jr.:you really haven't dug deep and I'm not going to speak for you.
George Garrastegui, Jr.:But you know, I've been doing this design for at least 20 plus
George Garrastegui, Jr.:years. Right? And like you said, every time you're learning but
George Garrastegui, Jr.:every time you're doing things at a different level. I mean,
George Garrastegui, Jr.:George, I don't
Jacinda W:I even would love to know, how designers 50 years
Jacinda W:ago, kept their skill sets up, right because this is before the
Jacinda W:internet. So like, where were the conferences? How did you do
Jacinda W:online like, you see what I'm saying? So I know this piece
Jacinda W:about this lifelong learning has evolved with the profession, as
Jacinda W:well as with professionals. And what But that piece of it is.
Jacinda W:And so if you're not able, even at this, you know, the, as you
Jacinda W:said at 20 years for me 25 plus years, right? Like if you're not
Jacinda W:able and willing to say, Okay, I did not know how to do that, how
Jacinda W:do you do that? Right? I'm working on a project right now.
Jacinda W:And they use airtable. As we have up the game on Google
Jacinda W:Sheets,
George Garrastegui, Jr.:there's so many, so many levels to all
George Garrastegui, Jr.:of that, right? salutely? Absolutely.
Jacinda W:So you're you're constantly, especially if you
Jacinda W:enjoy the work, if you enjoy, if you are intrigued and curious,
Jacinda W:right? If you're if you're curious than this not really
Jacinda W:difficult for you to try and learn different things. If you
Jacinda W:don't like that aspect of it, then this is going to be
Jacinda W:challenging for
George Garrastegui, Jr.:a grid. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
George Garrastegui, Jr.:A little transparency to our audience, right, me and just
George Garrastegui, Jr.:send I've known each other for a little bit, for a little while,
George Garrastegui, Jr.:you know, we were part of the AIGA dei Task Force. And with
George Garrastegui, Jr.:that, I've always known you as design Explorer. And when I was
George Garrastegui, Jr.:researching you for the episode, I saw that you've worked for the
George Garrastegui, Jr.:city of Cleveland. Yep. As a designed instructor, a
George Garrastegui, Jr.:programming associate for a museum. Yep. So let me ask you,
George Garrastegui, Jr.:what inspired you to shift from being part of these larger
George Garrastegui, Jr.:organizations to starting a social enterprise?
Jacinda W:I know, right, right, I get that. You know, I, my
Jacinda W:specialty was as an in house designer, with publications. And
Jacinda W:so I specialized in publications, branding,
Jacinda W:marketing, communications, helping with messaging, I also
Jacinda W:was responsible for doing the vendor quoting. So if we needed
Jacinda W:to hire a photographer, or if we needed to hire a printer, if we
Jacinda W:needed to hire another creative professional, I would
Jacinda W:responsible for going through the process and bringing that
Jacinda W:person on board. And for the longest amount of time, George,
Jacinda W:I thought that was going to be it. I really thought that was
Jacinda W:going to be at work for some of the largest organizations here
Jacinda W:in Cleveland. I like to remind people I designed for Cleveland
Jacinda W:Public Schools, we had 122 schools, seven administrative
Jacinda W:sites, we designed bilingual publications in three different
Jacinda W:languages. And I answered directly to our CEO at the time.
Jacinda W:Then I moved over to Cleveland Division of Water, where I
Jacinda W:designed for 500,000 customers, again, bilingual publications,
Jacinda W:city ordinances, government spaces. I also designed for the
Jacinda W:Department of Public Utilities. Georgia even did a couple of
Jacinda W:projects with the mayor's office. So that space, I was
Jacinda W:like, and
George Garrastegui, Jr.:so you're doing small jobs.
Jacinda W:I was I was like, in it. And you know, I'm a little
Jacinda W:bit ambitious. And so I was also volunteering. So I volunteered
Jacinda W:for like five different organizations. And I started,
Jacinda W:you know, as you say, Well, how and what I started mentoring,
Jacinda W:when I was at the school district, I quickly because I
Jacinda W:was the only designer there. I got tired of explaining that,
Jacinda W:right? They didn't know what design was. I was like 2726.
Jacinda W:They didn't know a black girl designer, let alone what design
Jacinda W:was right. So I regularly had to explain what this was. And so I
Jacinda W:started calling myself the designer, the graphic designer
Jacinda W:at Cleveland Public Schools, who else was gonna find me for the
Jacinda W:title. And so when I started doing that, it really made I
Jacinda W:noticed that it made people respond differently to me. And I
Jacinda W:noticed it had and made me up my game. Because if I'm going to
Jacinda W:tell you, I'm the one then I need to know everything. Right,
Jacinda W:I need to know how to do everything here. I need I need
Jacinda W:to be able to tell you about our brands, our Pantone cut, like I
Jacinda W:engulfed into the phrase logo police like I took it serious.
Jacinda W:Georgia had a badge and a hat like Wrong. Wrong size, wrong
Jacinda W:tint, like everything. And when I started mentoring, it just
Jacinda W:took me to a whole nother place. That and the fact George I think
Jacinda W:you know this as well, I suffer from Big Sister itis. So, since
Jacinda W:I already suffer from Big Sister itis, and I really enjoy working
Jacinda W:with young people. When my first mentee came and said she just
Jacinda W:wanted to see me work and just watch me. And at first I was
Jacinda W:like Well alright, you welcome to sit there. And she sat there
Jacinda W:for like a whole day. It was crazy. I would look over she
Jacinda W:would be taking notes. She would be writing. I'm running lunch.
Jacinda W:He ran it follow me behind lunch like she think I don't see her
Jacinda W:like, like she's following me but like she took shadowing
Jacinda W:serious. At the end of the day, George I was like, Okay, well
Jacinda W:I'm a bout to go home?
George Garrastegui, Jr.:Because I'm gonna follow you.
Jacinda W:I'm about to go home. I don't know if you have any
Jacinda W:additional questions or any comments or, and she said, I
Jacinda W:love to kind of come back tomorrow. Wow. And she said that
Jacinda W:she that's what she shared with me. She was a single mom. And
Jacinda W:she was looking to do something in design that could provide for
Jacinda W:her family. And that that conversation just took me there.
Jacinda W:Like, I'm not just giving her some words of wisdom. She's
Jacinda W:trying to take care of her child. She's She is looking for
Jacinda W:me to provide guidance, so she can keep her family fed. And and
Jacinda W:that just shook me like, it shook me. And so I just started
Jacinda W:talking with her and learning what she was doing and how she
Jacinda W:was doing it and what she had and you know, and we became fast
Jacinda W:friends. In fact, we are still friends now. She actually has
Jacinda W:her own business, and I buy stuff from her business, too.
Jacinda W:Oh, lovely. Yes, I've definitely like when she asked me that. It
Jacinda W:just took me there. It wasn't just like, one of my sisters or
Jacinda W:brothers asked me something, right? She was trying to take
Jacinda W:care of her family. And that just walked me and she was so
Jacinda W:young, you know. And she was doing the right thing, right.
Jacinda W:And so I just started working with her. And as I began working
Jacinda W:with her, my co workers saw because he would come down all
Jacinda W:the time. And my co workers saw it, and they were like, oh,
Jacinda W:Jacinta I saw you with your student. You know, my son wants
Jacinda W:to do this. And I don't want him to be like a regular artist. I
Jacinda W:want him to get a job like you. So can you talk to my son. And
Jacinda W:then one person saw me talking today, son, and then somebody
Jacinda W:brought the daughter and then somebody brought a cousin. And
Jacinda W:then they the the young people started referring their friends
Jacinda W:like, Oh, I know a black girl doing this. And next thing you
Jacinda W:knew, I had 10 mentees like, it just, it just happened. And by
Jacinda W:time I moved from the school district to the city of
Jacinda W:Cleveland, Georgia, I was operating a little baby HR
Jacinda W:design agency. In that office, I'm here to let you know, I was
Jacinda W:recruiting, I was helping with resumes I was helping with
Jacinda W:interviewing, I was helping decode job descriptions. And the
Jacinda W:crazy crazy thing happened, George, they started getting
Jacinda W:jobs.
George Garrastegui, Jr.:Well, that's amazing.
Jacinda W:I was like, they like, and I just started
Jacinda W:documenting my process. I started writing down, hey, this
Jacinda W:is what work this is what didn't, I started taking notes
Jacinda W:of who was in my network that I could connect them with, like I
Jacinda W:am and in doing that is really the first seeds. You know, as I
Jacinda W:look back of what design Explorer was going to be, and I
Jacinda W:think I time you and I met, design explore became what it is
Jacinda W:today, because of Dr. Mayo and the whole staff at Ohio State
Jacinda W:University, they really, really, really took a special interest
Jacinda W:in my research work. And they helped me to iron it out. I'm
Jacinda W:talking not just a little Renson, no iron with the steam,
Jacinda W:and what is the feasibility? How will you sustain yourself? How
Jacinda W:will this help the profession? how we'd like these deeper
Jacinda W:research based type of things? And that's really what made
Jacinda W:design explore possible.
George Garrastegui, Jr.:So let me ask you this. What I also
George Garrastegui, Jr.:heard with the idea of that person shadowing you, right is
George Garrastegui, Jr.:is something that maybe as young creatives we don't normally get
George Garrastegui, Jr.:is somebody really genuinely interested in the things that
George Garrastegui, Jr.:we're interested in, right? Because a lot of times such a
George Garrastegui, Jr.:hard thing that sometimes it's hard for us to explain what we
George Garrastegui, Jr.:do to our friends or family who don't really understand and to
George Garrastegui, Jr.:have that person shadow you and also, you know, beyond the idea
George Garrastegui, Jr.:that you were like, Oh, she's trying to do something for our
George Garrastegui, Jr.:family, but also like, somebody gets me. I think that's an
George Garrastegui, Jr.:important thing, too.
Jacinda W:I recently met a young man in Detroit and his mom
Jacinda W:brought him to meet me which I was like, what? And I was
Jacinda W:speaking at the Heidelberg Project in New York, I mean, in
Jacinda W:Detroit, and they were like, hey, just send us in cleat. Just
Jacinda W:send us in Detroit. And I'm thinking, okay, like, I'm just
Jacinda W:gonna hang out here with y'all. Like, I enjoyed the environment.
Jacinda W:It's creative there. And I was like, vibing, and this mom comes
Jacinda W:on, she's like, I heard you're here. And they told me you're
Jacinda W:here and I brought my son because he likes art like you.
Jacinda W:And he's thinking about doing something with computers. And so
Jacinda W:I started talking to the young man, I'm like, Well, tell me
Jacinda W:what you do. And he starts to try to give me the fluff answer.
Jacinda W:Well, you know, I do a lot you No, I like creativity. Okay,
Jacinda W:what's that mean? What'd you do? Well, you know, I like art
Jacinda W:classes. And I like computer. What do you do? And he's like, I
Jacinda W:was like, Well, here's the thing. I'm a creative. So I
Jacinda W:already understand the language, you can just tell me, you don't
Jacinda W:have to give me the answer that you give everybody else because
Jacinda W:they don't know, really what you're talking about. You can
Jacinda W:tell me exactly what you do. And he said, I really liked to make
Jacinda W:posters. I want to do computer like, hey, I want to make
Jacinda W:videos, he wants to do trailers, he wants to be able to use his
Jacinda W:art and technology at the same time. Right? Like, that's why
Jacinda W:he's like, trying to, that's what his mom is like, I don't
Jacinda W:know what you're talking about. I need to get you to somebody
Jacinda W:who can speak that language and help explain it back to me. So
Jacinda W:after I decode the conversation with the son, then I go back and
Jacinda W:share with the mom. Okay, here's what he needs,
George Garrastegui, Jr.:that you translate, and really you
George Garrastegui, Jr.:translating for her as it's lots
Jacinda W:of translating, because parents, particularly
Jacinda W:the ones I've spoken with, George, they genuinely don't
Jacinda W:know what you have to understand that the design professional has
Jacinda W:changed drastically. It's not even what it was two weeks ago,
Jacinda W:right? So it's changed drastically. And so parents are
Jacinda W:just trying to keep up and keep food on the table, clothes on
Jacinda W:their back and shoes on their feet. And so your child coming
Jacinda W:up to you talking about i need a $600 tablet for being able to
Jacinda W:help parents like okay, yes, he does. Yes, he definitely could
Jacinda W:use a tablet. But maybe we started away from tablets about
Jacinda W:100 bucks. Yeah, okay, well, we're gonna get that at. It's
Jacinda W:this decoding thing, you know, that it's constantly happening.
Jacinda W:I'm decoding with the young folks that I speak with, then I
Jacinda W:got to decode for the parents to understand how to better nurture
Jacinda W:and help and assist and provide this creative beast, because you
Jacinda W:know, it's the thing that feed, right, like, it's a savage. And
Jacinda W:you got to feed this creativity. And parents are just trying to
Jacinda W:understand how, what, how much is. Now they're trying to
Jacinda W:understand how to do that. And so regularly, I have to decode
Jacinda W:for parents.
George Garrastegui, Jr.:Yeah, I get that. And, you know, it's
George Garrastegui, Jr.:also just seems like you're just kind of justifying the fact
George Garrastegui, Jr.:that, that this world that we live in, is a viable profession,
George Garrastegui, Jr.:right? When they're not so used to just they're used to seeing
George Garrastegui, Jr.:unfortunately, the the doctor, lawyer, things like that, were
George Garrastegui, Jr.:those just things equal money, and like you said, these
George Garrastegui, Jr.:families are trying to provide and so they want to make sure
George Garrastegui, Jr.:that their their children get a job that can also do the same
George Garrastegui, Jr.:thing, because they've been struggling with that,
George Garrastegui, Jr.:potentially. So how do you make sure we do that.
Jacinda W:And what I've, what I hear from a lot of parents is,
Jacinda W:oh, he can be creative, but I want him to be able to have what
Jacinda W:I don't have. And so when parents hear for many parents,
Jacinda W:when they hear my son or my daughter wants to be creative,
Jacinda W:they remember these stereotypes. Artists are homeless on the
Jacinda W:street, paintings that don't sell all my other favorite, you
Jacinda W:know, the art cart teacher, you know, the teacher in the art in
Jacinda W:the class, she doesn't have a classroom, she carries art on
Jacinda W:the car, she got that little train and go down, wiggle like
Jacinda W:Chicken, Chicken, Chicken, Chicken, Chicken, chicken,
Jacinda W:right? You know, they're like, Oh, God, my child is gonna get
Jacinda W:that job. They're not excited about that. And so the thing is
Jacinda W:that, as professionals, we have to get better at sharing our
Jacinda W:stories, telling what's really happening, and what's really
Jacinda W:happening, not just what's happening, what's really
Jacinda W:happening. And we have to be transparent about the good parts
Jacinda W:and bad parts. Because you know, we I find sometimes as designer
Jacinda W:we we love to be like, oh, yeah, I'm driving this. I'm rocking
Jacinda W:that I got the MacBook Pro. I got the new, but let's talk
Jacinda W:about the before. I recently had an opportunity to attend a
Jacinda W:project osmosis event and present gas Moses was giving out
Jacinda W:laptops
George Garrastegui, Jr.:to high school students. George, I was
Jacinda W:on the call like, is he about to get the MacBook Pro
Jacinda W:to $2,700? So I typed in the chat box straight up, George
Jacinda W:typed in chat bots. Do you have fonts? If you don't if you need
Jacinda W:some fonts call me. Don't you know your man was like, I would
Jacinda W:love to learn more about how to get fonts for the new computer.
Jacinda W:He don't he's getting his he is getting quote unquote, the
Jacinda W:limousine the Lexus equipment, doesn't know how to get fonts.
Jacinda W:Right?
George Garrastegui, Jr.:He got the printer but I got no paper.
George Garrastegui, Jr.:Right. Like, he got the best you know, and I think that's one of
George Garrastegui, Jr.:the things that like there's things that we just don't talk
George Garrastegui, Jr.:about, right where like, there's so many different connections to
George Garrastegui, Jr.:to what it is and and I was gonna ask you a silly question
George Garrastegui, Jr.:and I'm gonna move past it just because you know, what we're
George Garrastegui, Jr.:digging into is so much more. More interesting, right? And
George Garrastegui, Jr.:what you're, what you're doing is you're talking about one
George Garrastegui, Jr.:translating conversations for, you're basically bridging the
George Garrastegui, Jr.:gaps, right? between, between students and their families of
George Garrastegui, Jr.:like, what this whole thing is. Yeah. And what it is, is the
George Garrastegui, Jr.:ability to break down kind of what creativity is, when you're
George Garrastegui, Jr.:talking about art, there's a different thing that we're not
George Garrastegui, Jr.:artists, we're designers. Correct. And I think a lot of
George Garrastegui, Jr.:people confuse them, because they, they, they think they're
George Garrastegui, Jr.:the same. And yes, we might have started out as artists, because
George Garrastegui, Jr.:that's just kind of how we navigated the world, being able
George Garrastegui, Jr.:to draw things potentially, but we are people who see things
George Garrastegui, Jr.:and, and create impact with what we create versus just something
George Garrastegui, Jr.:beautiful. And let people decide based on that
Jacinda W:is yes, we are vehicles, I like to describe our
Jacinda W:scribing as we are vehicles where messages and experiences
Jacinda W:come in, we translate them, we put them on paper or on
Jacinda W:computers or on social media, or billboards or products or
Jacinda W:services or experience. And as a vehicle, you know, we are
Jacinda W:congruence like we are that person that's going to translate
Jacinda W:this and be able to synthesize it so that the next person has a
Jacinda W:better experience, a more improved a different experience.
Jacinda W:And I think that we don't talk about that part of it enough. We
Jacinda W:don't talk about the evolution of your career. And I think that
Jacinda W:as we have young people, these are the types of things I
Jacinda W:recently was at University of California, UC Davis. And one of
Jacinda W:the design challenges I gave because the school was so nice,
Jacinda W:the design department, they were like you won't come in and teach
Jacinda W:a class. I just got off the plane. I'm I'm okay. Like, all
Jacinda W:right. Well, what do you want to? So one of the design
Jacinda W:challenges was to ask the student designers in the
Jacinda W:foundation's classes, what do you think it's like to be a
Jacinda W:senior designer? Georgia faces went blank, blank, like, what do
Jacinda W:designers do? Like they were like, I'm like, Have you ever
Jacinda W:seen one day like, like, so their world is is so I don't
Jacinda W:want to use the word limited. But their perspective is just
Jacinda W:very narrow, because they just simply haven't had the exposure
Jacinda W:or the experiences yet. And so asking them about what your what
Jacinda W:you might be doing in 25 years? That's a tough question. That's
Jacinda W:a big question. And they have a vision of that, because they
Jacinda W:don't see the people doing that, like they don't see the people
Jacinda W:at 25 a year, they don't see the people at 50. Or they see the
Jacinda W:people who are in their classes, they see the people who are in
Jacinda W:their classes, and they see the people who are teaching their
Jacinda W:classes. That's, that's what,
George Garrastegui, Jr.:that's what college
Jacinda W:is all about. So I think that we have to be better
Jacinda W:at professionals to talk about some of these nitty gritty
Jacinda W:things, because we just can't keep not only the pretty stuff.
George Garrastegui, Jr.:Oh, no, definitely. I mean, that's one
George Garrastegui, Jr.:of the reasons why I think that I started this this podcast
George Garrastegui, Jr.:conversation is the ability to, you know, like you said, talk
George Garrastegui, Jr.:about the process of getting here. Yeah, learning from the
George Garrastegui, Jr.:stories that people have, and really trying to realize that
George Garrastegui, Jr.:it's not all, you know, sunshine and rainbows, and there's a lot
George Garrastegui, Jr.:of struggle, and too much of it is put on social media. And we
George Garrastegui, Jr.:focus on the beautification of things and the finalization of
George Garrastegui, Jr.:work, right. And we don't ever focus on the struggles that that
George Garrastegui, Jr.:go into it. And, you know, the process or the thinking behind
George Garrastegui, Jr.:it, or the even the teams that you have, right, everybody
George Garrastegui, Jr.:thinks like, oh, only one person did that, like, you know, it's
George Garrastegui, Jr.:on their website, they did it. I'm like, No, hello, there's a
George Garrastegui, Jr.:whole team behind that creative from writers, designers,
George Garrastegui, Jr.:videographers, producers, editors, marketers, you know,
George Garrastegui, Jr.:accountants I like was I think that's all of the things that we
George Garrastegui, Jr.:don't talk about. Correct. And I think that's one of the reasons
George Garrastegui, Jr.:why is to allow my listeners to see that there are multitudes of
George Garrastegui, Jr.:ways to getting to a thing, and if they can align with any of my
George Garrastegui, Jr.:guests and be like, Oh, my God, that's exactly how I used to do
George Garrastegui, Jr.:it, or I'm looking to do something like them. To me,
George Garrastegui, Jr.:that's where the magic happens, right? Because then they realize
George Garrastegui, Jr.:that it's not just what's happening out there on the
George Garrastegui, Jr.:surface. It's actually also what's happening behind the
George Garrastegui, Jr.:scenes, and a lot of stuff behind the scenes is where the
George Garrastegui, Jr.:magic happens. Like to me that is the big thing. GEORGE That's
George Garrastegui, Jr.:awesome. Magic.
Jacinda W:Think about this, you print your annual report. Guess
Jacinda W:what happened? You put it on the shelf. You spent six months on
Jacinda W:that. It's printed. It goes on the shelf. You start the next
Jacinda W:one. Yeah. So if we're not, if we're not talking and appreciate
Jacinda W:having an appreciation for the what happened to get us to that
Jacinda W:place of glory, the being able to really acknowledge it and
Jacinda W:enjoy it becomes very limited. Because because you're not
Jacinda W:you're not respected any of the stuff that happened before that
Jacinda W:you only want to talk about this one little piece. Now all the
Jacinda W:hours I put into it all the the labor, the drafts, pray, like,
Jacinda W:ask a designer. Hey, I saw that thing you did. How many drafts
Jacinda W:did you do? Right? Like that's a conversation
George Garrastegui, Jr.:in itself. But ask us ask a student
George Garrastegui, Jr.:how many drafts? It's it's a vastly different conversation
George Garrastegui, Jr.:because of just there. I think what you were mentioning it like
George Garrastegui, Jr.:the lack of knowledge, and it's not to take away anything from
George Garrastegui, Jr.:there. It's just the exposure. And like you mentioned, there's
George Garrastegui, Jr.:a there's a lack of exposure to design an early Yes. So how do
George Garrastegui, Jr.:you think we as a community needs to address this? And oh,
George Garrastegui, Jr.:that's a double quick. Yeah, it was a double. It's a double.
George Garrastegui, Jr.:It's a two parter. And is finding out about design in
George Garrastegui, Jr.:college? Too late in your opinion?
Jacinda W:Okay. So I'm a tackled of the last part of the
Jacinda W:question. I come back. George, as you know, I study education.
Jacinda W:I love watching educators work. I've been in so many schools, so
Jacinda W:many teachers. I love it. I love watching them work I love when
Jacinda W:they let me watch them work I love when they asked me what,
Jacinda W:like, I just love watching them work, right? I highly respect
Jacinda W:the work of educators. And in answering your question, I have
Jacinda W:to say, college is too late. It's too late. And for the
Jacinda W:students and for all of the young people who decide in
Jacinda W:college, this is what I want to do. It's not impossible, right?
Jacinda W:It's not impossible to learn it. It's simply the fact that when
Jacinda W:you're in that K 12 space, you're in a place of discovery,
Jacinda W:reflection, that's what they call it, right reflection. And
Jacinda W:it's much the stakes are much lower to reflect in K 12, than
Jacinda W:they are in a college classroom. See in a college classroom, my
Jacinda W:dollars is on the line now. That time for discovery is much more
Jacinda W:rapid. I gotta figure this out. I got 16 weeks. I've got four
Jacinda W:years. I got a two year like, so that so that place of discovery
Jacinda W:happens best in that foundations part of the passage. That's that
Jacinda W:whole K 12 piece. Plus, maybe you guys are way more fortunate
Jacinda W:in New York. But see here in Ohio. We start standardized
Jacinda W:testing in the second grade. Now, George, I don't know if
Jacinda W:you've ever seen an eight year old have to prepare for tests.
Jacinda W:It is the saddest thing I'm here to It is so sad. George, when I
Jacinda W:go to a school I know I'm gonna be there a couple couple weeks,
Jacinda W:couple months. First question out of my mind what mind is
Jacinda W:testing because I want to be out of here by testing because like
Jacinda W:it's it's heartbreaking to watch. It's heartbreaking that
Jacinda W:they're eight. They're eight. So we are starting standardized
Jacinda W:testing in the second grade so that we can begin to learn what
Jacinda W:their future likes and interests and capabilities are at at
Jacinda W:eight. That's George, what were you doing at eight?
George Garrastegui, Jr.:I'll tell you what I was I was just
George Garrastegui, Jr.:drawing.
Jacinda W:At eight. I was drawing. I was having lunch at
Jacinda W:recess. And I was doing pretty decent at gym because I'm very
Jacinda W:unathletic, and no one ever picked me. So that's what I was
Jacinda W:doing at eight. I can't imagine having to make a career decision
George Garrastegui, Jr.:at eight. Oh, no. But oh, no,
Jacinda W:that's what we're asking our eight year olds to
Jacinda W:do. Now, we're asking our eight year olds with standardized
Jacinda W:testing. What are you good at? What do you like? How much did
Jacinda W:you learn? What kind of you know, like, we're asking them
Jacinda W:these metric based questions at eight. When you talk about is it
Jacinda W:is college too late. When I look at the K 12 system and all the
Jacinda W:opportunity for discovery and for learning and being exposed
Jacinda W:to different things. That's the place. Like that's the place. So
Jacinda W:it's not that it can't happen at the college level. It's just you
Jacinda W:have time in the K 12 space that you simply you don't have that
Jacinda W:kind of time
George Garrastegui, Jr.:at the college level. Right.
Jacinda W:And then what can we do to have a better under a
Jacinda W:better acceptance, how can we do this? Is that the question? How
Jacinda W:can we have a better accept? Well,
George Garrastegui, Jr.:you know, since there's a lack of
George Garrastegui, Jr.:exposure, right, what can the design community do to address
George Garrastegui, Jr.:this
Jacinda W:threefold answer? It's because realize that the
Jacinda W:lack of diversity and design is a wicked problem. When we talk
Jacinda W:about how to solve wicked problems, problems that are so
Jacinda W:massively large, that one thing, one person, one fix just isn't
Jacinda W:going to hurt it. Wicked Problems are things that you
Jacinda W:couldn't even put a million dollars on it, you couldn't dump
Jacinda W:a billion dollars in education right now fix it. You couldn't
Jacinda W:dump a billion dollars in public transportation, and fix it.
Jacinda W:Because this is beyond money. These are how we identify wicked
Jacinda W:problems, right? Like how massively large and design, the
Jacinda W:lack of diversity in design is a wicked problem. And so we need
Jacinda W:to treat it like a wicked problem, and look for multiple
Jacinda W:people to solve it. Different kinds of people in different
Jacinda W:kinds of places in different kinds of experiences in
Jacinda W:different kinds of perspectives. See, that's how we address a
Jacinda W:wicked problem. And if we began to think of this lack of
Jacinda W:diversity of design in that, then we would understand that
Jacinda W:it's not just educators, we need parents, we need professionals,
Jacinda W:we need organizations, we need businesses, we need all of these
Jacinda W:people focused and united, to begin to work on that problem.
George Garrastegui, Jr.:That's true. That's true, it is
George Garrastegui, Jr.:definitely something there is a systematic problem that I think
George Garrastegui, Jr.:as you're talking about an eight year old student in the second
George Garrastegui, Jr.:grade, needing to determine what their life is going to be, you
George Garrastegui, Jr.:know, when when we understand standardized testing, basically
George Garrastegui, Jr.:inhibits creativity. And it allows only students or
George Garrastegui, Jr.:individuals to only focus on what is being asked versus what
George Garrastegui, Jr.:can they potentially do, right? And an eight year old, they
George Garrastegui, Jr.:should be exploring and having these moments of epiphanies,
George Garrastegui, Jr.:versus, you know, standardization, and you need to
George Garrastegui, Jr.:do this as an assembly line, kind of answer your question,
George Garrastegui, Jr.:this is what happens. Yes.
Jacinda W:And that's why, you know, when I when when we do
Jacinda W:summer camps, it's such a revolutionary experience,
Jacinda W:because I'm not asking you to do the same thing you did for Miss
Jacinda W:Jones class. And I'm willing to wait for you to think about it.
Jacinda W:Well, well, let's time is it over? Because what if I don't?
Jacinda W:We'll wait, you come back tomorrow, we will talk about it
Jacinda W:again. But rod is if I don't, if I can't think of it. We're gonna
Jacinda W:sketch we're gonna draw, we're gonna have some conversations,
Jacinda W:let's look at our what our friends are doing. Right there.
Jacinda W:So like, how do I do this? What happens if I can't like it? They
Jacinda W:just having this the struggle. And so because they've been
Jacinda W:taught, like, Hey, I told you eight facts, I need you to
George Garrastegui, Jr.:give me eight answers. The conditioning
George Garrastegui, Jr.:is the
Jacinda W:is that conditioning, and then they come to design or
Jacinda W:creativity? Well, we're like, what do you think? They're like,
Jacinda W:Well, what do you think? How is it? I don't know, how do you
Jacinda W:like it? Well, what if I don't? What do you like? They're,
Jacinda W:they're like, I had one student once. I was like, Can you answer
Jacinda W:one of my questions? I did. Like, don't you?
George Garrastegui, Jr.:But just what was the question I
George Garrastegui, Jr.:asked?
Jacinda W:Well, I don't know. I really don't. What do you think
Jacinda W:it is? That's what I was asking you. I don't know, either. What
Jacinda W:we what do you see,
George Garrastegui, Jr.:that's one of the biggest things I
George Garrastegui, Jr.:always see is, is as educator myself is the idea that that
George Garrastegui, Jr.:they consider design us, like we have solutions, not answers. And
George Garrastegui, Jr.:Solutions is a very different case based on a bunch of
George Garrastegui, Jr.:different factors that go into account to say, you know,
George Garrastegui, Jr.:because of these things, this is potentially an option. Versus an
George Garrastegui, Jr.:answer, obviously, is, you know, something that is proven to be
George Garrastegui, Jr.:true. And this equals this, and one of the things I tell my
George Garrastegui, Jr.:students is exactly what you're getting at is the fact that
George Garrastegui, Jr.:you're trying to uncover things, and it's not going to be as
George Garrastegui, Jr.:direct answer. And if you're looking for me to give you an
George Garrastegui, Jr.:answer, then, you know, we're gonna have this runaround
George Garrastegui, Jr.:conversation of just well, what are you all day?
Jacinda W:And I excel at this conversation? What are you like,
Jacinda W:I don't know, what are you having? What's going on? Well,
Jacinda W:what did you see? What did you hear like, oh, we can go I can
Jacinda W:take you know, I spent a lot of time with eight nine year olds,
Jacinda W:so I can play this game. Really Well, I think really,
George Garrastegui, Jr.:but I think to do that is to uncover
George Garrastegui, Jr.:the ability and for them to understand like it's you're
George Garrastegui, Jr.:breaking them from this cycle of answering what the like needing
George Garrastegui, Jr.:an answer and I think the discovery Part is cool. Like,
George Garrastegui, Jr.:I'd love to think about okay, two and two does equal four, we
George Garrastegui, Jr.:get that. But in what situation? Could an equal five? Let's just
George Garrastegui, Jr.:have a conversation. George,
Jacinda W:if you do it right, sometimes one plus one can
George Garrastegui, Jr.:equal 11. Right, right. And so it's
George Garrastegui, Jr.:being
Jacinda W:able, it's being able to own and discover. And so when
Jacinda W:you ask, like, how has it happened, I believe that it's
Jacinda W:happened, because the expectations I've set for
Jacinda W:students are different. I don't expect you to tell me the last
Jacinda W:thing that you told Mrs. Jones and get an A, that's just not
Jacinda W:how this is going to operate. In fact, I want you to make your
Jacinda W:own design. And I have plenty of time to sit here and work with
Jacinda W:you on it. There's not a rush here, we might be using physical
Jacinda W:tools, we might be doing wacky supplies, you know, because I
Jacinda W:love to bring like colored packing peanuts or popsicle
Jacinda W:sticks or, like, I found these little foam cubes at the
Jacinda W:educator store, right? Like they're like, these could be
Jacinda W:friends. It could be a building, if you stack I'm like, really?
Jacinda W:Wow, how can you stack up, right? So I'm not even going to
Jacinda W:bring you the same supplies that you're using in your other
Jacinda W:classes, because I want us to have a different context to our
Jacinda W:conversations. So our outcomes are always different. Because I
Jacinda W:don't go into a get trying to get the same in deliver the same
Jacinda W:information, like, so the thinking is different. The
Jacinda W:ownership of the knowledge is different. That is really where
Jacinda W:I see young people just thriving, when they, when I'm
Jacinda W:able to spend 3456 sessions with a group of students, by the end
Jacinda W:of it, they're like, so you think that was designed to
Jacinda W:absolutely, like, they can go through that thinking process on
Jacinda W:their own and make better decisions. And that's how we
Jacinda W:know the thinking has changed. Right. And that's ultimately
Jacinda W:what I'm trying to do with designing spore I don't, I don't
Jacinda W:want people, particularly young people, I don't want them coming
Jacinda W:to events, or activities or workshops, and not changed at
Jacinda W:the end of it not changed. And to do that work. It's very
Jacinda W:laborious, right? Like, it's very, it's very labor intensive.
Jacinda W:Because I'm not bringing you the same things, we're not gonna
Jacinda W:have the same kind of conversations, I'm gonna ask you
Jacinda W:different stuff like, and it's that preconditioning of how
Jacinda W:students have been thinking that we have to begin to break that.
Jacinda W:And that's why As designers, we have to talk more about our work
Jacinda W:more about our process more about our story, that whole
Jacinda W:piece of it. It's crazy. It's crazy.
George Garrastegui, Jr.:Yeah, what I love hearing about that
George Garrastegui, Jr.:is, is there's no one size fit all. And I think that's some of
George Garrastegui, Jr.:the things that, that educators who want to be impactful
George Garrastegui, Jr.:educators do. They understand the assignment, and they
George Garrastegui, Jr.:understand that they have to bring differences to all of
George Garrastegui, Jr.:those things, you can't just do the same thing, every single
George Garrastegui, Jr.:time. And I think that's really where you understand. And you
George Garrastegui, Jr.:see the educators really shine is when they start to look at
George Garrastegui, Jr.:that and they go, okay, cool, I understand what what my goal is.
George Garrastegui, Jr.:But for this group of people, I have to adjust. So it is it is
George Garrastegui, Jr.:that sense of learning continuingly because, for me
George Garrastegui, Jr.:every semester, it changes because I got a new group of
George Garrastegui, Jr.:students. So I think the same thing for every successful
George Garrastegui, Jr.:educator is the same where they say, I understand what I'm
George Garrastegui, Jr.:trying to do. But I need to adjust based on who I have in
George Garrastegui, Jr.:that room, based on who I'm talking to. And that's exactly
George Garrastegui, Jr.:what you're telling me is the fact that I'm going to make sure
George Garrastegui, Jr.:that you understand it because you may understand it
George Garrastegui, Jr.:differently than Bobby su Jamal or anything like that. And
George Garrastegui, Jr.:that's the important part that you
Jacinda W:get. And that's why so many organizations who work
Jacinda W:with me, they're kinda like, um, let's listen to we, we had a
Jacinda W:script and you went off script. Well, because Chris and Mark was
Jacinda W:looking crazy. I didn't understand what I was talking
Jacinda W:about. We must go together collectively. This means we
Jacinda W:must, we must travel together. And I can't leave four or five
Jacinda W:behind just because two or three got it. i We have to move in
Jacinda W:unisons. So what happens if I come back here again, and we
Jacinda W:talk about this, if I don't address the thing that they
Jacinda W:don't understand? Then what am i What are we going to do? And so
Jacinda W:a lot of times, it's really difficult for organizations
Jacinda W:because they're like, Well, what are you going to ask them about?
Jacinda W:What are you going to say? I don't know yet. I mean, I go in
Jacinda W:there with the outline. I have some slides. I got some
Jacinda W:resources. Right I got my bag of motivation, right. I'm a bag of
Jacinda W:motivation snacks. But we might have different conversations
Jacinda W:like I I've had conversations about the difference between art
Jacinda W:and design, like, kids want to understand it. I taught a group
Jacinda W:of kindergarteners design once, and their biggest questions to
Jacinda W:me were. So in the art class, we're just going to paint. But
Jacinda W:in here, we're going to make stuff. I'm like, Yes. They're
Jacinda W:like, Isn't that like making an art? And I'm like, sort of,
Jacinda W:they're like, heartless. They're trying, even at that young of
Jacinda W:age, they were trying to understand the difference
Jacinda W:between art and design. And what's so wonderful about it is,
Jacinda W:I had shared with a couple of them, you know, there's some
Jacinda W:grown people still try to figure that out. So you are for even
Jacinda W:tackling the topic. Like for even asking the hard questions.
Jacinda W:That's how I know you're going to be powerful. That's how I
Jacinda W:know you're going to be exceptional, because you're
Jacinda W:already asking the hard questions. And they're like, and
Jacinda W:they're comfortable
George Garrastegui, Jr.:with that, at that, at that young
George Garrastegui, Jr.:age.
Jacinda W:And having a group conversation. One is like, well,
Jacinda W:if we make stuff is it different with our hands, than if we make
Jacinda W:it with the computer, they're like, is that? Like, they were
Jacinda W:trying to figure out that, and I think when I when I look back at
Jacinda W:like, all the different places that I've taught, and all the
Jacinda W:different organizations and classrooms, some of my favorite,
Jacinda W:most comical, most creative, most aha moments was in that
Jacinda W:kindergarten class, trying to communicate this thing called
Jacinda W:design to a six year old, who's still learning the alphabet. But
Jacinda W:you can't use the regular definitions, you can't use the
Jacinda W:regular techniques, you can't use the regular light Lake, you
Jacinda W:got to come way deep, because you want to understand it, the
Jacinda W:only challenge is, there are six.
George Garrastegui, Jr.:But you're able to, then you're able
George Garrastegui, Jr.:to drill it down to like its essence, for a six year old. You
George Garrastegui, Jr.:don't need to use the big words and try to explain it over
George Garrastegui, Jr.:somebody's head, you're like, hey, this is what it is. And
George Garrastegui, Jr.:this is what it's not. Yeah, but also, you let's just have a
George Garrastegui, Jr.:conversation. Yep.
Jacinda W:And that's why I started taking in the quote
Jacinda W:unquote, wacky supplies, as we call them, because it equaled
Jacinda W:the learning and the the the playing field, because sometimes
Jacinda W:I might have third graders, right, I might go to an after
Jacinda W:school program, where they clump, the kindergarten and the
Jacinda W:third graders together, right? They put the you know, they put
Jacinda W:groups of students together. So like K to two might be together,
Jacinda W:maybe like three, four or five might be together. So I can't
Jacinda W:change the entire lesson, I have to be able to teach it in a way
Jacinda W:that even the six year old, and the eight year old, can both
Jacinda W:understand it and work and build and design together. And that
George Garrastegui, Jr.:that's a skill. That's a skill. That is
George Garrastegui, Jr.:definitely a skill. And I don't want to take anything away from
George Garrastegui, Jr.:you. Because I think that is the ability to, to create design for
George Garrastegui, Jr.:that multiple audience. And understanding that, because who
George Garrastegui, Jr.:you you know, are engaged with you understand that could be a
George Garrastegui, Jr.:wide variety of ages. And to build that in Yes.
Jacinda W:And issues, right? We got literacy issues, I see
Jacinda W:literacy challenges, often. I mean, especially I want to say
Jacinda W:maybe these last three years, two years to three years, I've
Jacinda W:seen a lot more literacy challenges, like like, oh, okay,
Jacinda W:I understand what's happening here. Hey, would you like to
Jacinda W:work with my one friend, you know, he's really, really great
Jacinda W:at this, maybe we can do it together. So that the things
Jacinda W:that you don't do well, he can help with and there's something
Jacinda W:he doesn't do well, so now that's gonna bring the bar down,
Jacinda W:and level this up. So no one feels some kind of way, about
Jacinda W:being vulnerable about the thing that they don't know or can't
Jacinda W:figure out or,
George Garrastegui, Jr.:I mean, that's the ultimate form of
George Garrastegui, Jr.:collaboration, right, which is what we do, and the ability to
George Garrastegui, Jr.:say, you know, what, everybody has a strength. Let's put those
George Garrastegui, Jr.:people with different strengths together. So we can all just
George Garrastegui, Jr.:work together. And to do that a younger age allows you to maybe
George Garrastegui, Jr.:even consider as maybe those young people to be like, Oh, I'm
George Garrastegui, Jr.:good at one thing, and that other person is good at these
George Garrastegui, Jr.:other thing we can work together.
Jacinda W:And my last summer camp, I was assigned a young
Jacinda W:teenager to be my helper unit. They're like she'll help you
Jacinda W:with anything you need. She'll help you if you need help with
Jacinda W:your passing up the art supplies if you need help packing things
Jacinda W:up, or you know if we for cleanup, she'll help with that.
Jacinda W:But George, I happened to notice she was having far too much fun
Jacinda W:working with some of the second graders. Like far too much fun.
Jacinda W:Finally, by the second week of camp, I'm like, You know what,
Jacinda W:Lizzie? know how you can really help me she's like, Yeah, how
Jacinda W:did you bullied the second grade team? She's like, I can you
Jacinda W:like, yeah, I can figure out this tech piece, you know, that
Jacinda W:would really help me if you worked with them. Because, you
Jacinda W:know, you can read a little bit faster than them and they can
Jacinda W:build and cut stuff up. They could you could really help them
Jacinda W:with your thinking. And she was like, Can I really? You go right
Jacinda W:ahead. So instead of see, say, and work with me where she was
Jacinda W:learning nothing, she wasn't having fun, because we can't
Jacinda W:have fun with this thing. I don't know how much further we
Jacinda W:gonna make it. And when I told her to do that, man, oh, man,
Jacinda W:isn't our rippled through camp, because all the other high
Jacinda W:school kid, can I work with the sixth graders? Right? That we
Jacinda W:could we could we can do what like because they all thought,
Jacinda W:hey, I have to help the adult. But you know, by the second week
Jacinda W:of camp, I already know where the restroom is, I already know
Jacinda W:where to park my car, I know where to go get you know,
Jacinda W:Cantopop. So I'm good that like, if you really want to help,
Jacinda W:let's help the others. So that we can all have fun together.
Jacinda W:They
George Garrastegui, Jr.:know. That's that's the whole point.
George Garrastegui, Jr.:And I mean, you talk about all of this. And honestly, I just
George Garrastegui, Jr.:listening to the way you mentor and the way you connect with
George Garrastegui, Jr.:young people is a conversation I believe me and you can have for
George Garrastegui, Jr.:a long time just kind of vibing off of these stories and things
George Garrastegui, Jr.:like that. But one of the things I also want to understand is
George Garrastegui, Jr.:just designed explore as a company. Yeah. How is it? How is
George Garrastegui, Jr.:it structured? Is it just you? Or is there a team of explorers?
George Garrastegui, Jr.:Well, I will be very Are you the team? For many, many, many, many
Jacinda W:jobs. George I. A lot of people didn't like yourself
Jacinda W:didn't know, it was just me. Like, didn't didn't know it was
Jacinda W:me for many years. I want to say almost maybe like the first four
Jacinda W:years. I was by myself, I couldn't afford to hire anybody.
Jacinda W:I don't like to have people work for free. I couldn't afford. I
Jacinda W:couldn't even really finished 14 to design my own brand, because
Jacinda W:I had to work to pay for my mortgage and pay for my car
Jacinda W:note. So I didn't have like, that's how tight it was like my
Jacinda W:accountant. She's always laughing at me. She's like, when
Jacinda W:she looks at the books. She's like, Oh, you must be living
Jacinda W:late like those. She was like, are we going to be able to
Jacinda W:continue our relationship? Like are you are like what? It was
Jacinda W:lean those first. It was lean, it was lean. It was lean. And I
Jacinda W:I just took all the pieces I could. There were lots of there
Jacinda W:was lots of mistakes, and lots of COVID brought even a few
Jacinda W:more, right. And I and M all I could do George was keep moving
Jacinda W:forward. That's all I could do. I I couldn't quit. I refuse to
Jacinda W:go and just quit and find a job somewhere where I knew I wasn't
Jacinda W:going to be happy. And so even during the lean times, right, I
Jacinda W:remember one year I was really broke, I was really broke. And
Jacinda W:George I took a job at an after school camp. And I made a deal
Jacinda W:with them. And I said, Hey, okay, I'll come and help serve
Jacinda W:snacks and watch the children and make sure they're safe. And
Jacinda W:all that kind of stuff that happens at an after school
Jacinda W:program. I was like my only exchange my only request is, is
Jacinda W:that if there's time during the three hours after school when
Jacinda W:the parent before the parents come, if there's an opportunity
Jacinda W:to teach design classes, I would like to do that. And George, by
Jacinda W:the third week, there was like, you know, you could just keep
Jacinda W:doing this, we'll just call you on like, because the kids
Jacinda W:started loving it. I would bring my art supplies in and they
Jacinda W:would be like, are you going to the third grade class? No, today
Jacinda W:I'm going to the first grade us with them already. What you know
Jacinda W:on Mondays I go to the kindergarteners Tuesdays I come
Jacinda W:to the first grade like they're like oh you already you should
Jacinda W:come to the third grade class on like, trying to negotiate
Jacinda W:negotiate carrying art supplies start by I'll help you Mr.
Jacinda W:Sinha. If you come to our class first. And and it just it just
Jacinda W:really, really took off. And George, I had to take a job
Jacinda W:doing it and I had to make the exchange like, hey, I'll do
Jacinda W:this. And while I was doing that, I was writing and
Jacinda W:documenting and researching everything. Like I came home at
Jacinda W:night I would take notes of what would what went well, what
Jacinda W:failed. My kindergarteners were infamous for letting me know we
Jacinda W:didn't understand that at all. Like, was that spell? It would
Jacinda W:be? Which way does the bee go? They're like, Oh, okay, that
Jacinda W:lesson didn't work. Let me let me try another one. Next time. I
Jacinda W:come back And so because of all of that, the volume has picked
Jacinda W:up tremendously. And it's forced me to develop and engage a team.
Jacinda W:I'm really excited to say that, you know, I have some awesome
Jacinda W:young people who have stepped up, I also have to really share
Jacinda W:that the first round of young people that I mentored, when
Jacinda W:they found out what I was doing with design, explore. George,
Jacinda W:they were the first people who volunteered to help me. They
Jacinda W:were the first ones who helped my website, they were the first
Jacinda W:ones who offered to help me with my social media, you know, they
Jacinda W:were the first ones like, Hey, you got to do this thing. And
Jacinda W:then we this will happen, and I'll show you how to do that.
Jacinda W:And then we like, they were the first ones to do that. I call
Jacinda W:them the OGS, the original, the original gangsters, the OG
Jacinda W:mentees, because, you know, I got three tiers of mentees, you
Jacinda W:know, I got the OGS, the new GS, and the one of the GS, now you
Jacinda W:got, you gotta want to be one of these people who are calling me
Jacinda W:now like, Um, can you help me find the internship, um, I'm so
Jacinda W:so called me and something happened at my job. And I need
Jacinda W:to find out what it like situations scenarios in the
Jacinda W:morning to be GE like they tried to get right. And the OGS were
Jacinda W:the first ones that helped. I mean, I know I have some
Jacinda W:pictures circulating around here. And because you know,
Jacinda W:we've been celebrating the five, the fifth year anniversary, of
Jacinda W:design, explore, and, you know, they came back and they saw
Jacinda W:where we're at, and what we're doing and where we're working.
Jacinda W:They're like, Oh, my God is like,
Jacinda W:you got an office like, because I've never had before, I was
Jacinda W:always working out of my home, I was always having activities out
Jacinda W:of my out of my space out of my garage out of my driveway. You
Jacinda W:know, I was always doing stuff like that. So they have been
Jacinda W:instrumental. And when I have opportunities now, I've just
Jacinda W:gotten so used to giving those opportunities to young people
Jacinda W:that I don't even seek, I don't seek a lot of adults to help
Jacinda W:with things. Because I know that the young people will do what
Jacinda W:they will help guide and direct to what design sport needs it to
Jacinda W:be. Right. And that's really what I've been doing. So I have
Jacinda W:a young person who's been operating my social media
Jacinda W:channels since she was like 17. And I'll let her do what she
Jacinda W:wanted. So you think we should be talking about what really
Jacinda W:like where do you find that it? How do you
George Garrastegui, Jr.:explain it. That's it. That's the
George Garrastegui, Jr.:empowerment, you've been able to foster the engagement with
George Garrastegui, Jr.:really young students, you've been able to foster this with
George Garrastegui, Jr.:people who you mentor. And then if you empower them to think
George Garrastegui, Jr.:about and be part of your brand, right, which I think is what you
George Garrastegui, Jr.:were talking about with that one student who instead of just
George Garrastegui, Jr.:working for you is actually working with yes, if you
George Garrastegui, Jr.:empowered her to do that, those are the things like even when
George Garrastegui, Jr.:you sit with your internship, right when you get to do the
George Garrastegui, Jr.:actual work, versus just getting the coffee and doing that kind
George Garrastegui, Jr.:of like, just whatever. When you're doing that you understand
George Garrastegui, Jr.:the importance. And they're like they're paying it back to you
George Garrastegui, Jr.:with saying cool, we understand what you gave us. And now
George Garrastegui, Jr.:supporting you in in what you've basically allowed them to do,
George Garrastegui, Jr.:right? So if you're mentoring people on design, and they're
George Garrastegui, Jr.:now getting jobs in web or social media management, and
George Garrastegui, Jr.:they're like, cool, I'll just do that for you. Because it's what
George Garrastegui, Jr.:I do as
Jacinda W:a young man, I've been mentoring, he was deeply
Jacinda W:affected by COVID. You know, he was going to school in Chicago.
Jacinda W:And you know, when COVID happened, they closed schools.
Jacinda W:And so he had to come home. He had literally like two classes
Jacinda W:left for graduation. Like he was he feelings hurt, rightfully so,
Jacinda W:rightfully so. And so I just kept calling him. I kept letting
Jacinda W:him call me. I have a calendar link that I give a lot of them
Jacinda W:like, Hey, I can't talk about this second, here's my link, you
Jacinda W:pick a time that you want to talk to me, and we'll figure
Jacinda W:something out. All right, I'll send you a link, we can talk on
Jacinda W:the cell phone. And let's have let's put this together and he
Jacinda W:kept calling. He called me a couple of weeks ago, he said, I
Jacinda W:got a job. He's like, I'm so happy. Like, I want you to call
Jacinda W:me if you ever need something. And so, as I though I had a plan
Jacinda W:for design explore, as we talked about in that classroom, right?
Jacinda W:The more young people that I talk to the more young people
Jacinda W:that I work with, the more young people I hear their stories for.
Jacinda W:It always makes me wonder, should design explorer be doing
Jacinda W:that? Is that something you know, that I can get into
Jacinda W:because of the mentoring work that I've been doing? I have a
Jacinda W:great desire now to teach a gap class, you know, like a gap
Jacinda W:class. Remember, like back in the day you took a class during
Jacinda W:the four weeks of Christmas or the four weeks you know of
Jacinda W:summer break, you know like before summer rake, after first
Jacinda W:week is first four weeks before summer. And then before school
Jacinda W:starts in the fall, man, I have a great desire to teach a
Jacinda W:professional practice gap year class, like, all of these types
Jacinda W:of things. And because I've been doing it for so long and so
Jacinda W:much, I now know when a young person comes to me, I know
Jacinda W:exactly how much time we need to spend together. And I have about
Jacinda W:maybe three or four young people right now. They're, they're
Jacinda W:embarking on their one year with me. So I'm already hitting them
Jacinda W:up. So what are we doing? Why haven't we finished that? What
Jacinda W:are we like? And they literally tell me stuff like, well, we
Jacinda W:don't know if we're ready to go in the real world, honey. It's
Jacinda W:already the real world. And you're, you're,
George Garrastegui, Jr.:you've been you've been doing this for
George Garrastegui, Jr.:a long time. You just didn't know it. Maybe
Jacinda W:you're already in the real world. It's happening right
Jacinda W:now. It's happening right now. And they're like, it is it is,
Jacinda W:it's not coming. It's not starting, it's started, you're
Jacinda W:using the wrong verb.
George Garrastegui, Jr.:Right, right and wrong tense. And you
George Garrastegui, Jr.:know what, I think one of the things that I'm that I'm
George Garrastegui, Jr.:listening to, and like I said before, we can honestly go deep
George Garrastegui, Jr.:and all of these little these little nuances. But as we start
George Garrastegui, Jr.:to kind of like close out as a as a mentor, as an advocate,
George Garrastegui, Jr.:what are you still inspired by?
Jacinda W:Wow, I am still inspired by the drive that young
Jacinda W:people have to figure it out. Because sometimes as adults, we
Jacinda W:get frustrated. We're like, Okay, this just might not be
Jacinda W:happening. Young people do not do that. George, it fascinates
Jacinda W:fascinates me that they will figure they have a drive, and a
Jacinda W:thirst for understanding and comfortability. And like, I've
Jacinda W:just never witnessed. I know, I talk with my older family
Jacinda W:members. And I asked them did I do that? And they're like, it
Jacinda W:was real bad, too. And so maybe this just happens, maybe now
Jacinda W:that I've aged, I don't see it, you know, maybe maybe adult has
Jacinda W:maybe adulthood has dropped on me or something. Right? So when
Jacinda W:you say what am I impressed, like, the drive of young people
Jacinda W:is awesome. And then to see them grow into their confidence is so
Jacinda W:wonderful. Like, it's it's so wonderful. And anything that I
Jacinda W:did to play a part in that helps me
George Garrastegui, Jr.:sleep good at night. Well, that's
George Garrastegui, Jr.:amazing. So now, as a business owner, and a creative, what do
George Garrastegui, Jr.:you struggle with?
Jacinda W:Remember, we talked about failure, fail fast. That's
Jacinda W:what I That's my motto fail fast. I tried to do it fast.
Jacinda W:What do I struggle with? You know, George, I am really
Jacinda W:looking to always learn more about social impact businesses.
Jacinda W:One of the biggest challenges that I get often is that people
Jacinda W:think design Explorer is a nonprofit. I'm like, I never
Jacinda W:said that the material Don't say that, like we are all about
Jacinda W:profit, we totally love, profit, and explore. We love profit, but
Jacinda W:we understand the necessity to be able to take advantage of
Jacinda W:some of the things that are happening in the nonprofit
Jacinda W:sector, and apply them in a for profit place, and some of the
Jacinda W:things that are happening in a for profit place and apply them
Jacinda W:in a business or an organizational setting. So when
Jacinda W:you talk about what are some of the things that I'm struggling
Jacinda W:at, I'm always looking for other social impact organizations to
Jacinda W:learn from, and to hear how they're doing it. There's not
Jacinda W:much written or, like, easily accessible about these
Jacinda W:businesses. I'm in a few impact hubs. I'm even taking a
Jacinda W:organizational management class right now with the organization
Jacinda W:here in Cleveland. So I'm always looking to learn that part of
Jacinda W:it. And I guess like most careers, most most creatives, I
Jacinda W:struggle with, Hey, don't add those Profit Loss numbers up
Jacinda W:right? Like, okay, don't put the cop like,
George Garrastegui, Jr.:Man match numbers and data.
Jacinda W:I'm going to tell you some data from the Census
Jacinda W:Bureau. Oh, I got those numbers. Member book. I got those for
Jacinda W:days. You're like, I need to add up this whole. Oh, hold on. Let
Jacinda W:me let me get let me let me check.
George Garrastegui, Jr.:I know sometimes when it comes to our
George Garrastegui, Jr.:own stuff, it tends to be there. I could do it for somebody else.
George Garrastegui, Jr.:But when it comes to me like oh, where's that? I can't wait when
George Garrastegui, Jr.:I put that info. Where's that receipt?
Jacinda W:Oh, I'm supposed to do all that paperwork. Oh, my
Jacinda W:bag.
George Garrastegui, Jr.:Right, right. And so on top of that,
George Garrastegui, Jr.:right now, you're also a seasoned professional, right?
George Garrastegui, Jr.:You've been doing this like you said for a pretty long time, a
George Garrastegui, Jr.:long time. What advice would you give a younger self entering the
George Garrastegui, Jr.:design industry today?
Jacinda W:I've been talking a lot about this lately, because
Jacinda W:like I said, I'm coming across a lot of high School students
Jacinda W:right now. Like, it's crazy, like how many high school kids
Jacinda W:are reaching out to me right now? I tell them to believe.
Jacinda W:Now. This believing thing is like multi layered because it's
Jacinda W:easy to say, oh, you should believe and you're like, Oh, I
Jacinda W:believe. But do you really? Do we operate and move in ways that
Jacinda W:we show we believe. Not all the time, George not all the time.
Jacinda W:And so if I was talking to the younger, my younger self or any
Jacinda W:young people, I always encourage them that you should believe you
Jacinda W:can do it. That thing that you think is a disadvantage, it
Jacinda W:might very well be the best damn thing you should do. It might be
Jacinda W:the very, very thing. I have a young person right now he shared
Jacinda W:with me that he speaks Spanish. And he he speaks he reads he
Jacinda W:writes, right. He has two languages. And he's trying to
Jacinda W:figure out what to do InDesign. Oh said you have hit the gold
Jacinda W:mine. Did you know you can do design in language? And he's
Jacinda W:like, huh, because you know, the school taught them how to design
Jacinda W:an English. They're designing in your culture, too. So I've been
Jacinda W:giving him like, read this learn about like, so he didn't believe
Jacinda W:it was possible. And that's where I'm like, You gotta
Jacinda W:believe it. You gotta believe it. And,
George Garrastegui, Jr.:and you designed and multilingual
George Garrastegui, Jr.:things, too. That's why I wrote so you understand that space
Jacinda W:when I showed him some of the things I did. And
Jacinda W:when I gave him some of the booklets and we talked about
Jacinda W:like, Do you realize how many magazines are translated in
Jacinda W:Spanish, we've got like Cosmo invoke in Spanish not even
Jacinda W:translated, it's a whole different publication like, and
Jacinda W:that's an audience that's a that's a vehicle by which you
Jacinda W:can use your creativity, and your bilingual language, and
Jacinda W:still do what you want to do. Like you don't have to give one
Jacinda W:up or hide one, you can have both. You gotta believe it,
Jacinda W:you've got to believe it's possible, you got to believe it
Jacinda W:can happen, you got to believe you can do it. Because there
Jacinda W:will be people that will be forces, there will be places and
Jacinda W:organizations to tell you otherwise. So if you don't, you
Jacinda W:better start believing quick. And that's what I've tried to
Jacinda W:tell them.
George Garrastegui, Jr.:Because there's going to be outside
George Garrastegui, Jr.:forces that are always going to tell you to not do things. And
George Garrastegui, Jr.:you have to be the one to go all in on yourself. Yes,
Jacinda W:yes, there's a there's a gospel song out there
Jacinda W:says, sometimes you got to encourage yourself. And that's
Jacinda W:really what I try to remind them to do. Because those outside
Jacinda W:forces are real. They're very, very, very real. And with just a
Jacinda W:little mustard seed of belief, you can do anything. And so
Jacinda W:that's what I'm hopeful that they'll take away from it.
George Garrastegui, Jr.:Awesome. Awesome. So what does the future
George Garrastegui, Jr.:hold for Jacinta Walker and design explorer?
Jacinda W:Oh, man, um, what does the future hold for just
Jacinda W:send up the future for just send us is really, really really to
Jacinda W:see design, explore, succeed. I've been working for many,
Jacinda W:many, many, many moons to be able to have a space. And that's
Jacinda W:what I'm pushing for right now. I am pushing and putting
Jacinda W:everything into making this thing come to fruition? What
Jacinda W:does the future hold for design explore? You know, I really
Jacinda W:love. As I shared before, I love working with educators, I love
Jacinda W:seeing them. What I'm looking forward to doing in the future
Jacinda W:with design Explorer is getting more into the curriculum writing
Jacinda W:space. You know, I've been in classrooms a very long time.
Jacinda W:I've been in many, many different classrooms and being
Jacinda W:able to communicate to others. This how to do it is is just so
Jacinda W:in my face right now, right? Like it i i Just see such a
Jacinda W:great need to be able to help others to be able to do this
Jacinda W:type of work. And so those are the two things that I see in the
Jacinda W:future.
George Garrastegui, Jr.:Awesome. Awesome. And lastly, where can
George Garrastegui, Jr.:our listeners find out more about you design, explore your
George Garrastegui, Jr.:thesis, and ways that they could support you absolutely.
Jacinda W:Everyone, you can always find me at design
Jacinda W:Explorer. And you know, everyone knows I say it all the time we
Jacinda W:spell design explorer with two R's real gangster, d s Hi GNEX,
Jacinda W:Pl O R R. You can always find me there. You can also find me at
Jacinda W:Jacinta walker.com. So these two places everything is links, lots
Jacinda W:of good reading materials, lots of press stuff, resources, we
Jacinda W:put together a huge resource page or on our design explorer
Jacinda W:channel. And we're always promoting and sharing out other
Jacinda W:resources so that we can kind of keep these conversations alive
Jacinda W:and present.
George Garrastegui, Jr.:Awesome. Awesome. Thank you so much to
George Garrastegui, Jr.:send it it was It was great for me to go a little bit off script
George Garrastegui, Jr.:as I prepare for an interview like this. But I think the
George Garrastegui, Jr.:direction that you took this and you know, the dig deep into how
George Garrastegui, Jr.:your mentorship, how the way you encourage and empower, you know,
George Garrastegui, Jr.:young people to start to get into design was way more
George Garrastegui, Jr.:important than any other, you know, sticking to my script,
George Garrastegui, Jr.:right? Like you said, I have an outline. And whatever happens
George Garrastegui, Jr.:during the conversation, I'm able to adjust and flip. And I
George Garrastegui, Jr.:think this was one of those beautiful moments where that was
George Garrastegui, Jr.:happening just the same way you do it, when those people are
George Garrastegui, Jr.:trying to ask you, well, what are you gonna talk about? So, I
George Garrastegui, Jr.:thank you for this enlightening conversation, because it's one
George Garrastegui, Jr.:of those conversations that I don't think we've ever really
George Garrastegui, Jr.:had, for the five plus years that we've probably known each
George Garrastegui, Jr.:other. This is probably the most in depth conversation we've
George Garrastegui, Jr.:really had about you. But really, how important this this
George Garrastegui, Jr.:organization and what you put into it is really doing and
George Garrastegui, Jr.:supporting and creating a space for young people to feel like
George Garrastegui, Jr.:they can be comfortable in their own skin and learn about things
George Garrastegui, Jr.:that maybe us when we were younger, kind of felt just
George Garrastegui, Jr.:normal and some students now don't get those same
George Garrastegui, Jr.:opportunities. And now they're now we need to create these
George Garrastegui, Jr.:other entities to help facilitate that and you are one
George Garrastegui, Jr.:of those people who've been doing it and doing it really,
George Garrastegui, Jr.:really well. Thank
Jacinda W:you so much, George, I appreciate you for having me
Jacinda W:and invited me and allowing us to have this deep conversation.
George Garrastegui, Jr.:Well, I loved it once again, just send a
George Garrastegui, Jr.:thanks again for this chat. And I can't wait to learn more we're
George Garrastegui, Jr.:you know, design explore takes you take care have a good day.
George Garrastegui, Jr.:This has been works in process. Once again, I want to thank my
George Garrastegui, Jr.:guest Jacinta Walker, I'm inspired to learn how she's been
George Garrastegui, Jr.:able to not only help and support young creatives, but
George Garrastegui, Jr.:also the parents to decode the creative base as well. It was
George Garrastegui, Jr.:great to take time to learn more also about design, explore and
George Garrastegui, Jr.:hear how she plans in moving forward. If you want to learn
George Garrastegui, Jr.:more about the research people organizations mentioned in our
George Garrastegui, Jr.:conversation, please check out the show notes on our website, w
George Garrastegui, Jr.:i p dot show. Also, if you really liked the episode, please
George Garrastegui, Jr.:give us a rating on Apple podcast. You can find works on
George Garrastegui, Jr.:process and all media platforms such as Apple, Google, Spotify,
George Garrastegui, Jr.:amongst many others. Please follow us on Instagram at works
George Garrastegui, Jr.:underscore in process. Thanks again. And until next time,
George Garrastegui, Jr.:follow your gut and trust in the process.